Washington Life Magazine
Washington Life Magazine

Q & A café at Nathans

Breaking up is (not always) hard to do… Divorce guru Sanford Ain talks about how to do the big split the right way

Sanford Ain

Thirty years and hundreds of cases, countless courtroom battles, clients with boldfaced names like S. Epatha Merkerson and Mike Tyson, not to mention several Washington moguls, have given Sanford Ain intimate exposure to one of the most bitter personal struggles people can face: divorce. But, is it possible to end a marriage as smoothly as it began? Possibly, with the right lawyer. Town & Country named Ain one of the ten best divorce lawyers in America. His clients rave that the way he works is as "dignified and respectable" as possible. In a recent Q & A Café interview with Carol Joynt at Nathans, Ain shared secrets about the civilized way to seperate.

Carol Joynt: Who should get divorced?
Sanford Ain:
People should get divorced if their relationship is so unsatisfying, so stifling, that the alternative is better, and they should take into account the effect on their spouse and their children.
CJ: How many cases end up in court?
SA:
A very small percentage of divorce cases end up in court, and an even smaller percentage of my firm's cases end up in court. Court is incredibly inefficient, unbelievably expensive and the worst place for a family to be.

CJ: If it ends up in court, does that mean the lawyers have failed?
SA:
The lawyers have failed. Sometimes it is both lawyers, letting their own egos get in the way, sometimes it's the clients' responsibility, and sometimes it is a combination of both.

CJ: Should people who are getting divorced always have a lawyer?
SA:
They always should at least consult with a lawyer.

CJ: Do most people come to see you because of marital betrayal?
SA:
That's the minority of clients.

CJ: What's the majority? Falling out of love?
SA:
People grow apart, fall out of love, or develop the economic means to be able to comfortably separate. There was a cartoon in the New Yorker last week that said, "I'm still in love with you but I want to try marrying some other people." [laughter].

CJ: Do you think that is just in the United States or is it global?
SA:
I think it is global issue.

CJ: Does it have to be sex to be cheating?
SA:
Legally, yes.

CJ: The Internet seems to play a larger and larger role in the idea of betrayal. Has it played a role in some of the
divorce cases you've handled?
SA:
It's becoming much more significant. It's our way of communicating with each other, whereas before it was writing letters or meeting personally. Now it is cell phones and the internet where we find people, talk to people, meet people, and exchange our thoughts. And the emails stay on the hard drive forever.

CJ: Have you gone and found some?
SA:
It's actually fairly routine for lawyers now to look through computers. There are companies that specialize in mirroring hard drives and seeing what's on there.

CJ: If a married person is exchanging emails with somebody not their spouse, not sex in chat rooms but simply flirting online, is that cheating?
SA:
It's not cheating from a legal standpoint but they are asking for a helluva lot of trouble. [laughter from the audience].

CJ: You represent clients in Maryland and Virginia. What are the differences between the jurisdictions?
SA:
The most significant one is in Virginia. You stop accumulating marital property as of the day you separate, whereas in Washington and Maryland you continue to accumulate marital property right through the divorce trial. Other significant differences are that in Washington, D.C., the judges have complete power to do whatever they want with marital property, no matter how it is titled. Maryland is the most restricted in terms of what they can do. Virginia is somewhere in the middle.

CJ: Tell us about hiring private detectives. Do you use them a lot?
SA:
On a scale of one to ten, if using them a lot is at the ten range, I'm probably in the two or three range.

CJ: What do you use them for?
SA:
Getting someone into the psychological state where they will want to settle. And most of the judges don't care. There was a judge in D.C. and I said, "What's the effect of adultery on your cases?" And he said, "It makes no difference to me." I also happen to know that the judge was having an affair, and that's one of the reasons it would make no difference to him.

CJ: Is there more infidelity by men than women?
SA:
It's still slightly more with men, but in the last twenty years we've seen many more women.

Sanford Ain

CJ: Have you seen more women take the first step in seeking divorce?
SA:
Over the last 30 years, absolutely.

CJ: What's a post-nup?
SA:
Post-nuptial agreements are very much like a pre-nuptial agreement or a property settlement agreement. It's done at a time when people are still living together and are probably uncertain where their marriage is headed and want to outline what happens if they don't stay together.

CJ: What's the most stressful situation you've had in a negotiation between two spouses?
SA:
I was taking the deposition for a couple of days from a boxer who is pretty well known, and he lost his temper with me. I was nervous, and I said to him, "Sir, you don't need to do that." And I was very polite, and that sort of brought the steam down. I have had clients walk out of settlement negotiations, I've had them stand up and curse and get upset and leave. I've said, "Okay, they're gone, now let's talk."

CJ: Have you ever thrown a client out of your office?
SA:
Yes. There were a couple of situations where people were dishonest. They had lied to me.

CJ: Is there a common thread that runs through divorce, something your clients all have in common?
SA:
Probably a desire to get it behind them as quickly as they can.

CJ: How long does it take, typically?
SA:
I just did one that I think is the quickest I've ever done. It took a week and a half.

CJ: That's not normal. What's the norm?
SA:
Six months to a year.

CJ: What do you cost an hour?
SA:
$650

CJ: And how many hours minimum are going to be involved in a divorce where one spouse wants it and the other doesn't?
SA:
The goal is to depress the level of conflict and to persuade the one who doesn't want it that it's going to happen eventually and it's in everyone's interest not to take an entire college education, or a vacation home, and give it to lawyers. And that generally wakes people up.

CJ: What are the grounds for divorce in Washington?
SA:
Six months mutual involuntary separation or one year voluntary separation.

CJ: But don't move out of the house?
SA:
Not without talking to somebody.

CJ: Do other lawyers come to you for their divorces?
SA:
A huge percentage of our firm's practice is other lawyers.

CJ: Is it true that a person thinking about divorcing can go around and talk to every top divorce lawyer in town and thus prevent their spouse from going to those same lawyers?
SA:
There's actually a case where someone did that and one of the lawyers who was consulted said, "I'm going to represent the opposing spouse anyway," and they went to court and the lawyer prevailed and was able to stay on the case. But, does what you describe happen? Yes, it happens every day.

CJ: What do you make of the Anna Nicole Smith case before the Supreme Court?
SA:
One of the things that Anna Nicole Smith said is that she's absolutely positive she's going to win in the Supreme Court, and I brought a quote from her as to why she's so confident: "I'm good at getting old men to do what I want."

The Q&A Café at Nathans in Georgetown is open to everyone. For more information please visit www.nathansgeorgetown.com. Located at the corner of Wisconsin and M Street.



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